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Well, welcome to the Get Fit with Jodell show. I am Jodell as usual and Dr. Peat has honored us with his presence on the podcast yet again and I, as I am sure you are thrilled just like I am every time we get a chance to talk with him. So it's a treat, Dr. Peat. So thank you and what's new in your world currently? Oh, I've been writing a newsletter on vaccinations, sort of the history of vaccination and explaining some of the physiological points that are being misrepresented.
I am so excited to read that because I'm pretty passionate about wanting to know all of the logistics about vaccinations as well. I've been looking into it for many years so I'll be really anxious to read that. And you know, we love hearing from you and supporting you and so for those of you out there listening who haven't signed up for his newsletter that he's talking about, which by the way will blow your hair back when you read it and each
time it comes out I just get excited. So I highly encourage you guys to sign up for that newsletter as it is a way to show your support and appreciation for Dr. Peat and how generous he is with his knowledge and coming on the podcast. So to do that you can send an email to RayPeatsNewsletter, all one word, at gmail.com and to sign up for that newsletter. It's just real easy and it gives your support to him as well. And if you're new to listening to
the podcast you can read an amazing plethora of research-based articles that Dr. Peat has written at RayPeat.com. That's R-A-Y-P-E-A-T.com. So without further ado, we had such a good podcast last time where people got to write in and ask questions and it was really well received so we decided to do that again. So we've got quite a slew of questions that people have written in. So I thank you for posting your questions. We'll get to as many as the
hour allows and I might even have a few of my own to toss in there, Dr. Peat. So this will be fun. The first question comes from Reba and she asks, "Dr. Peat, how can someone get rid of endotoxins in the body since we know how detrimental they are?" A fiber diet such as a raw carrot, if you shred a carrot fairly fine and add maybe olive oil and a little vinegar and salt, it's a pleasant enough food that you can eat it every
day and it happens that the carrot contains a germicidal but harmless substance. Root vegetables growing underground have to resist mold and bacteria attacks and that material has the same disinfectant effect in the intestine. Olive oil and vinegar also have a germicidal effect. So the salad is a good protective daily stimulating food. The bulk stimulates the intestine so generally the transit time is reduced if you eat a raw carrot every day. The average American, according to one survey, had I think it was a three day transit time.
The average person in Africa had less than a one day transit time. But if you can get your intestinal activity increased, that in itself has benefits far beyond reducing the endotoxin because your liver is constantly processing toxins and hormones, especially estrogen, is instantly inactivated when it reaches the liver. Some of it goes into the bile, some of it is eliminated through the kidneys. But the estrogen in the bile, if you don't have enough fiber in your intestine, the estrogen can be reabsorbed and returned
to the liver. When the liver is exposed to too much estrogen, it slows down and loses its ability to detoxify estrogen. So having a good flow of fiber through your intestine not only suppresses the endotoxin, but it binds the bile and the estrogen content of the bile, preventing it from reabsorption. So any kind of fiber has that anti-estrogen effect, but raw carrot is a very safe one. So when you said salad, you're talking the raw carrot salad, not necessarily a dark, leafy green salad, right?
No, I did an experiment putting lettuce in a closed plastic bag to imitate the intestine absence of oxygen and kept it at about 80 or 90 degrees in the intestine. That's close to almost 100 degrees Fahrenheit. But even keeping it around 90 degrees, after two or three days, the lettuce was just horribly rotten, supported a terrible bacterial growth and was stinky and foul smelling. And since we don't have enzymes to break down cellulose, that same kind of process happens when you eat a raw, leafy material such as lettuce.
Yeah, so stick to just the raw carrot salad if you really want to remove those endotoxins, right? Yeah, but you can get fairly safe fibers in other ways. For example, well-cooked oat bran is a pretty functional alternative, although research in Australia found that chronic use of oat bran itself has some estrogenic and carcinogenic effects on the intestine. What about, I know you're a big fan of coconut products, but what about coconut flour? Because that's pretty high in fiber, but I guess they dehydrate the coconut and process it down
into a flour. What do you think about that? In studies in pigs, it didn't work so well. It supports either bacterial or fungal growth. That's interesting, since most other coconut products we can trust in, because they actually help mitigate some of the fungus and yeast in the colon, right? Yeah, coconut oil, if it's oil refined and clean, is a good fungicide. Okay, great. Well, she also had another question. She said, "What does Dr. Peat think about bone broth, specifically chicken broth?"
Oh, that's one of my favorites. Necks, wings, and feet are all high in collagen. And if you cook them thoroughly and then let it stand and skim off the fat, then that's very good high collagen food. Okay, I've done the wings and the neck. I've never done the feet, so now I'm going to do the feet. You have to be careful getting them from a farmer that you know, because a big processor is likely to have processed the chickens with antiseptics, and sometimes the feet soak up a lot of the antiseptic.
That would be true, yes. That seems about right, considering our society nowadays and what they do to our meat systems. Okay, so Ben asks, "What about weight training for bone density?" He mentioned that you said that weight training, you know, various moves are efficient, but do we need to do regular weight training for bone density, or is there something else we can do? The diet really is the main thing. Keeping your stress levels low and your activity comfortable doesn't have to be anything special, because stress involves several things that interfere
with bone repair and renewal. Even a deficiency of salt, a low salt diet, can create stress that harms the bone. So old people being told to keep their salt down for blood pressure control, that's adding to their stress, increasing adrenaline, bringing up the parathyroid hormone that goes down the bone. Keeping a very, very high ratio of calcium to phosphate in your diet is helpful, because that helps to suppress the parathyroid hormone. And the parathyroid hormone blocks the use of oxygen in all of your tissues, and that leads to the production
of lactic acid in the bone, which dissolves the bone and contributes in the long run to osteoporosis. But that same bone-destroying effect lowers the energy production in all of our cells, so a high calcium intake increases our metabolic rate and efficient oxidative metabolism all through the body, not just the bone. Would you also say that these individuals, or all of us, would want to be outside in the sun? Will that help with bone density as well? Yeah, the vitamin D, the older person is the less cholesterol the skin contains, and it's
the ultraviolet light interacting with the cholesterol that makes vitamin D. So a person, especially a dark-skinned person, but anyone over the age of 50, needs a lot more exposure to sunlight to get their vitamin D level up adequately. Okay, and I like how last time you mentioned chopping wood is actually a really great form of exercise, so that would be a way to increase bone density I would think too. Yeah, it's something that feels productive, and isn't stress-inducing. Just by the word of it, you can see the product of your labor, and that is anti-stress.
I love that. Okay, so Sergei asks, "I'd very much like to know how Dr. Peat would recommend to deal with insulin resistance and early type 2 diabetes. Should one be afraid of elevated blood glucose after saying goodbye to low-carb or keto?" You know, the chronic stress elevates the free fatty acids in the blood. Women in particular have the problem of chronically high free fatty acids because estrogen causes a great activation of the growth hormone, which is a major producer of free fatty acids. And
it's free fatty acids in general, and especially unsaturated free fatty acids, that interfere with the use of glucose. So keeping your fat intake low is somewhat helpful, but any fat -- anything that lowers stress, lowers estrogen, is going to increase your insulin sensitivity, increase your ability to use glucose. Everything that lowers stress tends to lower estrogen and improves your ability to use oxygen productively, converting sugar to carbon dioxide. When you're stressed or high estrogen or have too much free fatty acid in the blood, any sugar that's
present tends to produce lactic acid instead of carbon dioxide. And lactic acid itself has many toxic ketogenic effects. So I've heard a lot of people who went keto for a vast amount of time are now saying that they're having insulin resistance, and even some have been diagnosed as type 2 diabetics. So it sounds like the stress of going into ketosis is part of the problem that's creating almost this diabetic effect on these individuals. The ketogenic diet is always stress-promoting, and that means that it's diabetes-ogenic to
some extent. It isn't really -- the diet that produces ketosis isn't strictly generating ketones. The hydroxybutyrate is included as a ketone, but it's actually an alcohol, not a ketone. And studies that have looked at the difference between actual ketosis and the presence of a high proportion of hydroxybutyrate shows that the hydroxybutyrate stimulates cancer growth and other stress-related things. So if you had an artificial source of ketones that were real ketones, that would probably be very beneficial. But when you generate them yourself, you're under stress and you're creating a cancer-promoting degenerative type of situation.
Okay, so I'm picking up a trend in your talking is that the stress is the main cause. I mean in all the podcasts we've done, you always go back to you've got to reduce the stress, you've got to calm down the stress in the body. So one of my personal questions I'd like to ask you is what is your favorite way to de-stress, like kind of in your life? How do you like to de-stress? Playing a musical instrument or painting or just doing anything interesting. If there's wood to chop, that's a good activity.
Yeah, but I can see how when we dial that stress reduction in, a lot of these things we're talking about today, that's when we're going to see them get reduced as well, right? Yeah, the culture is designed pretty much to keep people under maximum stress. Sort of like idle hens are likely to get in trouble and so the economy is designed to keep everyone under maximum stress so that they don't get in trouble, but naturally it doesn't work that way. Yeah, they're not getting in trouble in society, they're getting in trouble in their health
and so what's wrong with just taking a blanket outside on the grass and laying on it and watching the clouds go by? I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but we just don't take the time to do that. Yeah, when the weather's good. Okay, moving on, I've got a little sidetrack there because I love hearing your thoughts on stress, but a YouTube listener writes, this was an anonymous person, said, "Please address how this all applies, this being the stress mitigation," and actually they were
talking within regards to adrenal insufficiency. Someone who does not produce enough cortisol, he says, "All I hear on different podcasts is that cortisol is evil and must be reduced, but a certain amount of cortisol is necessary for our bodies, isn't it? And without any cortisol we would die, so can you address those who have low cortisol and how to balance that in a right ratio?" Yeah, out of thousands of people that I've seen their blood tests, I've only seen one or two that actually were deficient in cortisol. On their own, they're diagnosed as having
an adrenal deficiency of some sort, but when you look at their blood tests, they're doing fine on cortisol, but the adrenals use cholesterol to turn it into trigonalone and then into DHA and progesterone, and cortisol and aldosterone are increased by almost any stress, and only a very small fraction of your trigonalone or cholesterol or progesterone makes it into cortisol, so there has to be a great deficiency of cholesterol, trigonalone and progesterone, before you experience an actual deficiency of cholesterol. And by the time you reach
a real deficiency of cortisol, you're experiencing a whole range of symptoms and problems from low trigonalone and low progesterone. You can tolerate lots of stress-induced cortisol if it's backed up with plenty of trigonalone, progesterone and DHA, so a person doesn't have to worry about their stress if they have lots of these anti-stress buffer hormones. Would that be something that they would want to look into supplementing, if they, you know, considering taking a pregnenolone supplement if they find that they have very low cortisol?
Yeah, it will. In experiments on rats 60 years ago, they looked at the hormone level of all the rats they were experimenting with, and some of them were under stress from the handling and such, and they had higher than average cortisol, and then they gave them all the equivalent for a person would be a cup full of powdered pregnenolone that filled their stomachs, I think it was 10 gram dose per rat, just a gigantic dose so that they couldn't eat anything for a few hours. But there were no changes in their steroid hormones except
the ones who were under stress to start with. It brought their cortisol down to normal, so you can't push upstream in the adrenals. The more pregnenolone or progesterone you take, the more normal you become. It's the end point hormones that are produced normally only in extreme situations like aldosterone, estrogen, and cortisol. These are dealing with specific problems. If you supplement those beyond what the body would be making, then you have potential problems with all of them. Okay, so that might be some good advice for that listener who maybe needs to increase
their cortisol, that might be thinking about supplementing pregnenolone might be an easy fix right at first. Yeah, there was a well-known book about 20 or 30 years ago on the natural use of hydrocortisone or cortisol. His examples, the data that he based it on were very good examples showing that a tiny supplement like 5 or 10 micrograms of cortisol could improve a woman's menstrual cycle, for example. But I happen to know some of his patients who he was giving what he
called a physiological dose of natural cortisol. And after two or three months, they all started getting puffy faces, typical of Cushing's disease. That was on a 20 milligram per day dose, in divided doses, which is what the body normally makes. But if you supplement that, it can be risky. Okay, well said. Next question is from Leanne and she asks, "What would be a good strategy to help with my immune system? I recently found out I have cytomegalovirus expressed and also Epstein-Barr virus and I would like to increase my body's immune function.
What do you say to that, Dr. Peat?" Probably the majority of people have those viruses and so it's a matter of keeping them from expressing themselves and keeping your ability to handle stress optimized is the most important thing. And when you look at studies of general infections, not just those, but the more serious infections, polio, or all of the things that they vaccinate for, like the colds and mumps and so on, if you supplement vitamin A and vitamin D along those two vitamins are just about as effective as a huge vaccination campaign. And the viruses
that are present in the majority of people aren't doing any harm if their immune system is okay. But for example, if you're overweight, your blood level might seem to show a normal amount of vitamin A and vitamin D. But your tissues can be very deficient and the person will benefit from bringing their vitamin D and vitamin A, among other nutrients, up to a functional level. With vitamin D serum, a level of 50 or 60 nanograms per milliliter corresponds to a low rate of diabetes, various infections, flu infections practically disappear
when the person keeps their blood level at least at 50 nanograms per milliliter. I was just, actually I did a podcast with Jordi Dinkoff earlier today and we were talking about vitamin D and I was mentioning how I was recently in Hawaii and I noticed that after talking to a couple of my friends that live there, they don't have a cold and flu season and I wonder if that is part of the reason why they get vitamin D every day from
ample sun in Hawaii and I wonder if just keeping their levels up is keeping the whole state from having a cold and flu season. Yeah, I've known several people who used to have maybe five episodes every fall and winter of colds or flu when they started taking vitamin D, not another episode from multiple cases every year to none in several years. It makes sense, you know, we need sun for a reason and so even if we can't get it, we can supplement the sun and so that sounds like it's pretty important. As far as like
other immune boosters, what do you think about colostrum? That probably is helpful in an emergency situation but I don't think you need it. Magnesium is another nutrient that many people are deficient in. If your diet has too much phosphate, you just can't get enough calcium and magnesium to balance it and if your thyroid is low, your cells don't retain magnesium and the magnesium deficiency opens up your immune system to develops of these invention of viruses, herpes, epsom bar and so on.
And what about your thoughts on like monolaurin which is like from lauric acid, like from coconut oil, I know people use that as kind of an immune system booster. The guy who was not realizing that about 10 or 15 years ago asked me to join in the campaign to promote it but I asked him if there had been any safety studies of it and he got laughy and said I was anti-scientific but I've looked for safety studies and I'm not convinced those
things, any of the lipid things that are germicidal, they can also be disturbing to our digestive system. Okay, good to know because you hear people talk about that and you'll read reviews on certain things and you just don't know until you talk to somebody who knows like you so that's good. When we eat a fat like butter or coconut oil that is in the triglyceride form and our digestive system is very well equipped to handle quite a bit of that natural triglyceride fat and
it breaks the particles up into tiny chylomicron particles and those will pass into the lymphatic system. The chylomicrons are formed only when you have the right amount of the right type of triglycerides and if you put other emulsifying things or very abnormal lipids it can disrupt our ability to make chylomicrons and since the chylomicrons are a major pathway for absorbing vitamins A, K, D and E, if you disturb the chylomicrons for too long then you can get deficient in the fatty vitamins.
Okay, next question comes from another anonymous person and they said with kidney issues such as frequent urination and seeming to dump all my minerals daily with frequent bouts of urination, what do you suggest to calm down the kidneys and also help them to function more optimally? The two hormones most protective for the kidneys are progesterone and thyroid and the vitamins that I've just been mentioning, especially vitamin D, is extremely protective for the kidneys and making sure that you get the essential minerals, sodium, potassium, calcium and magnesium
in a generous amount every day is protective for the kidneys. Drinking too much water rather than milk or juices, the water can, as she said, wash the minerals out of you just by not providing, it fills up your stomach and satisfies your thirst but it doesn't provide any nutrients so it's better only to drink water when you're thirsty. Milk, juice and coffee are accompanied by some essential nutrients in each one. Okay, and are you a fan of coconut water?
Oh, if you open up a fresh green coconut it's very nice but I don't press any of it commercially sold because I've seen some of it containing a preservative but I imagine if you're sure it doesn't have a preservative and it's just a pasteurized and bottled it's probably good. Okay, very good. Okay, Allison asks, can white willow bark be taken instead of aspirin? It works for some people but it does have other ingredients so the tannin type substance in the herb can be irritating to the intestines so it's pretty much a personal matter whether
it works for you. Okay, and just briefly in case people are new to your thoughts on aspirin, can you tell people just a few thoughts about how you feel that aspirin is beneficial? I know it's kind of a new school of thought in today's world even for me as a nutritionist when I had first heard you say that, never was I taught that in nutrition, the training that I went through and so once you told me the benefits it made total sense but I'd like for the listeners to hear you say that.
It has many functions, anti-inflammatory functions but the thing that has been studied most is blocking the production of prostaglandins and those are formed from any inflammation tends to trigger the formation of these short-acting hormones but all of them have some very harmful side effects besides what they primarily do, most of them are simply amplifiers of the inflammation and they're produced in the brain, in the every organ, heart and so on. In response to a minor trigger of inflammation, so they're produced in proportion to the amount
of polyunsaturated fat incorporated into all of these tissues and as we age, increasing sharply in the teens as our growth slows down so that our metabolic rate slows and we aren't diluting them or oxidizing them as fast as a baby does, from about the age of 20 we very efficiently keep adding polyunsaturated fatty acids into our tissue structures so that from the age of 20 to 40 we're probably doubling the amount of PUFA in our tissues and PUFA is what converts to prostaglandins in the event of inflammation.
So a fetus or a newborn baby heals an injury without scars and all through childhood injuries heal very, very quickly and with relatively little inflammation but as the PUFA in their tissue accumulates wounds heal more slowly, cause more inflammation and leave scars that are interfering with function. Whenever you have a systemic inflammation producing lactic acid and prostaglandins, both of these are increasing the deposition of collagen in the tissues so with aging the body becomes approaching something like a big scar with a very high collagen content.
The difference between a kid's skin, gloves and leather boots is a matter of the age of the animal. An old animal has a very thick leathery skin because of the high collagen content and all of these inflammation related things, prostaglandins or lactic acid contribute to that age process of thickening of the tissues and aspirin by blocking prostaglandins and several other inflammatory mechanisms is an important protection from inflammation and aging. Yeah and I think my favorite feature too is that it helps to lower excess cortisol, is that correct?
Yeah, it lowers the pituitary ACTH production and ACTH also brings up the adrenal albastron which contributes to the collagen production of aging and deterioration in general. So not just protecting against cortisol but a whole range of degenerative processes. Wonderful, okay so now we know the benefits of aspirin. Nick asks, I've been taking cod liver oil pills for vitamin A and vitamin D. He says in a previous interview to avoid fish oils which I've never heard before so does that include cod liver oil, should I stop?
Well cod liver oil at least is giving you an A, which is beneficial if you don't have another source but I think it's good to use a fish oil derived vitamin A and D if most of the other fish oils have been removed because studies of the taste of ingested fish oil are very interesting. If you look at them just in a bottle, I did experiments with a bottle of unsaturated oils, put a rubber tube in the bottle and put the other end of the rubber tube in water and
every day the water climbed up the rubber tube because of the oxygen consumption of the unsaturated fat. Fish oils are extremely quick to react with oxygen and in these studies they found that before they reached the bloodstream the majority of them had been oxidized and they were very quick to be stored if they had made it into the bloodstream. With aging the brain accumulates these oxidizable fatty acids but the oxidation continues in the brain and the neural prostate is what they call the breakdown product when they happen in the brain.
The neural prostate in other tissues is the randomly produced equivalent of the prostaglandins. The neural prostates are made from the type of fatty acid that predominates in fish oils but before they reach storage a very large part of these fish oils are already oxidized and they are immunosuppressive. A toxic effect on the immune system can temporarily reduce inflammation by damaging the cells that would react to harm. So for about six months they are anti-inflammatory by blocking some of the immediate inflammatory reactions of the immune system but after that the immune deficiencies start showing up and
the animals experimented on with fish oils then became more susceptible to all kinds of infections. I guess even all throughout my years of doing nutrition consults I was never comfortable promoting fish oils just for the mere fact of if you think logically about how much processing it has to go through to get the oil out of a fish into a capsule it just doesn't seem logical that that oil would then retain all of the nutrient value to go in someone's body and be beneficial. So I just really struggled with promoting that.
I just told people you know eat fish and get your fish naturally. Historically it was made of very good varnish because it oxidizes so thoroughly and if you imagine that happening in your body you don't want to have varnished blood vessels. So if you have any leftover fish oil at home just start using it as varnish for your furniture at home. Don't ingest it. Yes I agree. Okay so Victoria asks can women who are vegans or vegetarians successfully follow Dr. Peat's nutritional guidelines and maintain a healthy menstrual cycle?
It happens that the only non-animal proteins that are really adequate for human needs are potatoes and mushrooms and you can thrive as far as protein goes with either potatoes or mushrooms and mushrooms happen to generally have more of the trace minerals than potatoes so you can get your iron from the mushrooms and all of the other nutrients except B12 and vitamin A from potatoes and some people said that mushrooms can provide B12. I'm not sure if that's adequate bacteria in the intestines will make vitamin B12 and so
vitamin A is the main problem and carotene if your thyroid function is good and you have vitamin B12 those are needed for converting carotene into the actual vitamin A which is needed for making progesterone which is essential for maintaining good periods. So the problem becomes that so many vegetables block your thyroid function. As long as you can keep your thyroid functioning and have vitamin B12 then you can convert carotene adequately to vitamin A to make your hormones. And as far as like for vegans or vegetarians would something like nutritional yeast would
that bring in some B vitamins since it is kind of high in B12? Oh yeah but potatoes and mushrooms are very rich in all of the vitamins all the nutrients except for iron and vitamin A and sometimes B12 might be a limiting factor. And as far as like are there foods you know you hear people talk about yams and things like that that promote estrogen but do you think that there's actually foods that can naturally promote progesterone do you think that there's foods that can naturally promote more progesterone in the body?
No, only things that provide energies, sodium, calcium and sugar are necessary for making the thyroid that you need to make the progesterone but there are no foods that directly go to the progesterone system. Okay, good to know. That's kind of my thoughts too I was like I didn't I wasn't really convinced of the whole yam thing being a promoter of progesterone I didn't see how one food could be a promoter. I've noticed that the yam story people were trying to sell yams as a progesterone promoter
but the crude sterol in yams is actually estrogenic and very toxic. Russell Marker who developed the production of progesterone from yams at one point decided to try the raw yam powder to see what it would do and the next morning he said he looked like he'd been run over by a truck it was all black and blue and it had broken so many blood vessels that he was bleeding internally. It's very dangerous stuff in the crude form. Okay, good to know. Elisa asks what does Dr. Peat think of stevia?
Oh, very sweet but I'm not sure it's safe to use to try to regulate your blood pressure in a pinch it can lower blood pressure but I don't think there's any real problem with hypertension if you're eating well and keeping your thyroid function alright. Hypothyroidism is almost always behind hypertension. Other nutritional deficiencies can sometimes do it. A magnesium deficiency or a vitamin D deficiency sometimes but usually it's just a low thyroid problem. Yeah, and I remember reading there's a few studies linked to infertility with stevia
and it got my wheels turning thinking well maybe it's because these people are swapping out sugar for stevia and good forms of sugar could be the reason why it would help just promote a system that's making more progesterone for fertility or other sex hormones and so perhaps that would be the reason why they were infertile is they kind of gave up on the good natural sugars. That could be it. Okay, now we're towards the end so I had one question I threw in here at the end and
it's kind of a personal one again I like to learn about you so I have a question for you. I would love to know do you have a favorite quick and easy recipe that you love and that you would like to share with us? Oh, not one in particular but I have at different times make a lot of custards or when I was confident that there were safe sources of powdered milk I had a recipe for making pancakes and I have an anti-casing agent which can be toxic but I'm experimenting with recipes
using masa, mixed with corn and that's a very safe and digestible way to use a cereal. The processing in lime eliminates most of the toxins and breaks down the protein and starch so that they're very digestible, non-toxic. Would that then be kind of like a grits almost? Yep, same idea, hominid grits, tamales, tortillas. And so do you have kind of a recipe that you're working on now with the masa? Yeah, I'm just trying out different ways of handling it but the traditional, pretty much
the Central Americans developed I think all of the best recipes, quesadillas for example. And how do you do your custard? I know you mentioned custard a minute ago. Yeah, just eggs, milk, sugar and vanilla. Okay, that sounds easy enough. I might have to try that. Uh huh, sure. Okay, well that's the questions that we had on tap for today so I thank you once again for your time and your careful consideration on all these and sharing your vast knowledge so we appreciate you and again you guys that are listening, check out the newsletter,
[email protected] is how you want to order that and you can get it in your inbox or you can get it in your mailbox so you can go the nice way of actually reading a hard copy. Dr. Peat, thank you once again, I appreciate you so much and we'll do this again soon. Okay, thank you. Alright, have a wonderful afternoon. Bye bye.