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Hi, Ray, how are you doing? Hi, very good. Great. What have you been up to lately? Right now I'm writing my July newsletter on education. It'll be ready in a couple of days. Oh, fantastic. And now just for listeners, because I know we're going to have a lot of listeners, if they aren't already subscribed to your newsletter, how can they pay for that and become a part of your newsletters? I'm emailing raypeatsnewsletter with an S, [email protected]. You can get information by email subscription for 12 issues as $28 over two years every other month. Okay, wonderful.
That sounds like an incredible deal. So, Ray, I'm looking forward to that coming out, especially because some of our recent conversations, either through email or our last recorded conversation, dealt so focused in such a focused way with learning and education. And so I'm really looking forward to that. Before we get going with the proposed topic of today's conversation, which is serotonin and serotonin issues, I'm actually just super curious, Ray, and I've been meaning to ask you this. It's kind of a lighter question. But do you ever listen to music? Oh, yeah.
I actually like live music, preferably solos, but I don't often get the chance to listen to it. But since the Internet and digital music, I don't listen to it so much because computers, for example, generally have such horrible audio systems. And occasionally we listen to an old CD, but I don't think the general public recognizes the amount of degradation that has happened in the sound world. Music as the popular music has really conformed to the loss of fidelity in the sound amplifying systems.
So when you listen to classical older music and expect to hear the tone quality as an important part of it, the current apparatuses generally don't catch the essential quality. I actually would totally agree, and you found a little bit like my wife. If she's given the choice between staying at home or going out to some venue to try to catch live music, it's always we have to leave the house and we have to go find live music. Do you have a particular genre when you're able to catch live music that you favor over others?
No. Everything from old classics through Dixieland, Mariachi's. One of my favorites used to be the plugs of funny music I think is important. I think you might be right. Ray, do you dance much anymore or do you have much dancing in your experience? Nope, never did. Just enjoy listening to the music and participating in that experience. Yeah. Awesome. Ray, thanks for that. I thought that was fun. I remember a comment from an earlier interview that you did with someone else where someone mentioned they'd love to hear about what kind of music you like.
So that was on my brain and I meant to ask you, so I'm glad I did. Yeah, for many years with the alternates between playing different instruments, about 15 years ago I bought a cello in Mexico because I had always wanted to play one but they were too expensive. So I found a really great cello for $300 at intervals and tried playing that just because the sound quality up close to a cello is like nothing else. French horn is another thing that I've played quite a bit. Okay, French horn you said, right?
Yeah, just because of the sound quality, I've always liked that. That's really cool. I have some experience playing the piano. Have you ever played around with the piano? No, I don't like the sound of a piano very much. Interesting. They always sound kind of out of tune to me. I've heard that, but it's actually even really remarkable when someone has tuned a piano the way it's meant to be tuned. I imagine that's a challenging thing to do. Ray, would you put music in a similar category as far as an art, like painting and such?
Yeah, I think it has to have a lot of personality and the performer is really what makes it interesting. Ray, that's wonderful. Thanks. Yeah, and I agree with you. I think, right, the person playing the music is just as much a part of it as in the flavor and the tone that they and the kind of the energy they put to it is just as much a part of the music as anything else. Yeah. All right, Ray, to serotonin, because it just seems like we have a wide-scale serotonin problem.
I guess this is as relevant as ever. I don't think this has maybe never not been the case, but it seems that serotonin is implicated in so many facets of a degraded life. For example, high serotonin during pregnancy and neonatal development seems like a terrible recipe for autism and stress-related diseases later in life. It seems like a recipe for aggressive or psychopathic tendencies, just on and on. I know you've written a lot about serotonin, and I'll definitely reference below this talk on YouTube the articles that you've written on serotonin.
But for listeners who might be new to you, Ray, can you speak freshly and deeply on how serotonin is not exactly the happy former? Yeah, that's one of the most destructive myths of our society, strictly created as a marketing ploy by the pharmaceutical industry about 60 years ago to 50 or 60. Around the early 1960s, serotonin was being studied and identified very clearly as a cause of constricting smooth muscles, blood vessels, uterine contractions, intestinal contractions, and inflammation. And LSD was found to counteract those things very clearly, a blocker of serotonin's pro-inflammatory constricting effect.
It turns out that it's not just physical contraction of muscles, but a general constriction of consciousness, too. And if you block the serotonin effect that contracts muscles, for example, causing miscarriages in pregnancy or premature delivery, if there's too much serotonin, as well as hypertension of pregnancy and so on, the anti-serotonin agencies are protected on the level of consciousness, too. Serotonin constricts limits perspectives, and LSD, by blocking that, tends to restore perspectives. In excess, LSD creates too many imaginary perspectives, but it illustrates the negative effect on consciousness of too much serotonin.
Calcification goes with contraction and micro-blood vessel damage in aging and stress is one of the things too much serotonin does. Calcification of all of the soft tissues, meanwhile, decalcifying the bones. During pregnancy, the developing breast tissue starts secreting serotonin for the purpose of activating parathyroid hormones so that there will be calcium in the blood to make the milk with high calcium content for the baby coming out of the bones.
But if you have chronically high serotonin produced from the intestine, for example, by irritating foods all the way up to irritable bowel syndrome, but anything that irritates the bowel increases serotonin production systemically, that will activate the osteoclasts and break down bones. So it's a major factor in essentially all of the aspects of physical degeneration. Got it. And you mentioned some of the things that we might be able to do to oppose or antagonize serotonin. I want to get to that later.
I also kind of, in a little bit, I do have it in my brain to get to the whole idea that serotonin acts as a kind of filter on our perception. You kind of mentioned that. And I think that's important to consider. I'm going to ask you more about that. But with the LSD, I wanted to touch on this first. You mentioned too much LSD. You get into some of the hallucinogenic and some of the imaginary stuff that is maybe going too far with it. I think microdosing, I guess, is the term nowadays.
Microdosing LSD would be an effective strategy sometimes in controlling. I think it is on the level of 10 micrograms. Okay. And that would be a nice small dose associated with controlling some of the serotonin excess problems? Yeah, but there are other more accessible ways to do the same thing holding down uncontrolled production of serotonin, increasing its breakdown and preventing out of order production of serotonin. Okay, great. And I want to get to some of those things, but before we do that, I want to touch specifically because it's obviously such a big issue currently.
We have this corona stuff going on. How do you see COVID-19 in reference to serotonin? Oh, it activates the angiotensin system by blocking the enzyme that degrades angiotensin. So the action of the COVID virus is to turn on our basic inflammatory system, and serotonin is activated by that. It interacts very closely with angiotensin. The vasoconstricting effect of angiotensin, which it's named for, involves serotonin, which -- that's why serotonin got its name for increasing the tone of blood vessels. So angiotensin and serotonin are historically and culturally interrelated.
And the things that -- one of the early discoveries of the Chinese in treating the COVID infection included cinansurin, which is a well-established anti-serotonin agent. But azithromycin was the other main anti-COVID agent, and that was poo-pooed by American doctors because they say azithromycin is just a bacterial antibiotic. It's actually an anti-viral, anti-inflammatory, anti-spasmodic, a very broad-spectrum anti-inflammatory substance. So when you combine a specific anti-serotonin agent and azithromycin, those were two of the big Chinese discoveries seven months ago.
I think it should be taken as sort of a model for further development to concentrate on reducing inflammation with special reference to angiotensin and serotonin. Okay, yeah, it sounds like it. So really, I mean, someone who is focusing on keeping their immune system strong and also doing things that keep serotonin issues at bay is really not going to have to worry about this corona stuff, right?
Women, for example, healthy women who aren't taking estrogen birth control pills or SSRI activators of serotonin, healthy women without drugs who are menstruating regularly are immune, almost absolutely immune to the virus. And when they stop menstruating, the first thing to fall is progesterone. And men never have a great monthly dose of progesterone, and so even younger men are much more susceptible to the COVID virus, but aging in both sexes decreases the progesterone and related testosterone even as anti-inflammatory if it doesn't turn to estrogen.
But the androgens in both sexes increasingly turn to estrogen with aging, and old men, because of their testosterone precursor, very often have a lot higher estrogen than old women. And so the virus defenses the anti-inflammatory progesterone are lost with aging, and so that's why the virus is more harmful in old age. Aspirin and progesterone are among the protective anti-inflammatory things. That's great. Yeah, I was just actually going to ask if aspirin could be thought of in the same terms as natural progesterone in a sense.
Yeah, aspirin has many anti-inflammatory effects, not just the anti-presticlandin effect, but that's a big part of it. What about even something as pro-metabolic as like coffee? As what? Coffee? Oh, yeah, coffee protects against several. It works with aspirin, helps to hold down nitric oxide, tends to increase the ratio between the androgens and estrogen. That's one of the effects of anthropotensin turned on by the COVID virus, is it's an activator of aromatase, directly increasing estrogen, and also an activator of carbonic anhydrase.
Serotonin is too, and carbonic anhydrase is increased in everything that causes muscle contraction and tissue calcification. And so once you start down that path, it becomes just a jungle of these interacting inflammation-promoting factors. And a young person has all kinds of anti-inflammatory defenses to turn them off at an early stage. The high production of carbon dioxide is probably our basic youth-associated anti-inflammatory agent. Lactic acid represents our most primitive inflammation-promoting factor, and it increases the pH and the reductive atmosphere of the body.
And that reductive tendency goes with all kinds of degenerative inflammatory things, calcification and so on. But even the assembly of a virus is dependent on how reducing the cell environment is. And when you keep the cell internally in an oxidized active metabolizing using oxygen and suppressing lactic acid, the assembly of viruses and of the exosomes, which are repair particles emitted by cells under stress, we turn off those stress-related particle emissions. So even if the cell is infected, if it has adequate carbon dioxide and glucose to keep oxidizing, then the virus isn't able to spread.
Is this why someone who's on a low-carb diet, not giving their body glucose, and also maybe doing excessive exercise or overly high-output endurance-based exercise, is this why someone like that could be putting themselves in a real dangerous situation as far as susceptibility? When you're fasting or under stress or too much exercise without enough sugar, free fatty acids cause that same reducing condition of cells that activates all of the degenerative stress things, including lactic acid production.
A fairly recent publication on the effect of serotonin on the brain showed that it increases the level of lactic acid in the brain and lowers the ATP content. The very basic energy production and stabilizing factor is lowered while the destabilizing, reducing lactic acid is increased. And that suggests how important adequate carbon dioxide is to maintain the brain as well as the blood vessels and muscles and heart and so on.
Interesting. Does this put fitness in the same realm as science and medicine and education in terms of it's kind of been bastardized and made literally a business, and there's forms of exercise that are propagated that are clearly not healthy, but it just kind of puts fitness in the same category as medicine? Yeah, the endorphins got included into that mythology. Lactate increases the endorphins. The endorphins go with all kinds of suffering and stress, and a true happiness hormone would turn off endorphin along with serotonin.
Okay, so would good forms of exercise or fitness be like high intensity, short bursts of action possibly with lots of rest and obviously with good nutrition surrounding the event and walking and things like this? Yeah, you want your breath to come back almost instantly when you stop the action. You don't want any prolonged, increased breathing volume indicating that you've got an oxygen debt indicating high lactate circulating. Lots of supposedly well conditioned athletes go around with increased lactic acid persisting in their blood even 24 hours after their last activity.
And that increase of lactate in the blood, the reducing condition, affects the oxygen diffusing ability of the lung alveolar chambers. The distance between the air pocket and the capillaries is thickened almost instantly when the lactate is increased. The reducing effect of the lactate causes the cells to take up water, increasing the thickness and decreasing the ability of oxygen to diffuse in while carbon dioxide being many times more soluble in water.
The carbon dioxide can still get out through the inflamed lungs, so you become lower in carbon dioxide while more deficient in oxygen when your lactate is higher. The normal blood test that doctors consider a normal range, the numbers are something like one to four, and they don't consider it a problem until it gets up to 15 or 20 on the lactate scale. But I think the actual healthy young person with all of the anti-inflammatory things working ought to be at the very low end of the lactate scale, even subnormal if possible.
Got it. And because as we age, because we want to keep lactate, not as much of a widespread physiological issue, like would something like B1 or thiamin be a good supplement to take around bouts of exercise? Maybe good foods will usually supply enough of those. One of the natural conditions that leads to retention of carbon dioxide and suppression of lactate is higher altitude where you live because the oxygen pressure decreases.
And as you adapt to that, you maintain a good diffusion in your lungs, but your platelets hang on to serotonin more strongly in the presence of carbon dioxide. And as you go up in altitude, you can breathe faster to get your oxygen, but you don't blow out carbon dioxide, so the inflammatory things aren't activated. Your serotonin and lactate tend to decrease as oxygen becomes thinner at higher altitude. And in the Andes, they have noticed that the people living way up at 12,000 to 14,000 feet have very strong bones and teeth, even in the old age.
And I think that's the effect of high carbon dioxide, low lactate, low serotonin, and so on. So even though the COVID death rate seems like laughably low, is this why I've seen reports of people living like 8,000 feet or above where the incidence of death from COVID is almost zero? I mean, like -- Right. Exactly. It's the anti-inflammatory effect of carbon dioxide. Side note on coffee real quick. What would you say, Ray, to someone who says they can't drink coffee because it makes them feel jittery? Just curious.
Oh, I've heard that a thousand -- thousands of times in the last few years. Yeah. And people who were willing to experiment, they had said that even an ounce of coffee would make them jittery. I described taking coffee with heavy, good-tasting cream with food, and to start with a small amount with food. And these people found that it increased their ability to go longer without eating, without experiencing hypoglycemia symptoms, and it eliminated their dependency on eating frequently while avoiding those jittery hypoglycemic symptoms.
Okay, cool. So for people who want to ease their way back into it, that sounds like an appropriate experimental route to drinking more coffee. Yeah, small amounts with food and cream. To bring it back, Ray, into this serotonin as a kind of filter on perception, I'm really curious about this. What kind of an impact do you think high levels of serotonin are having on the media's coverage of COVID-19 and also on people's response to that?
If you look at research like C.R. Kloninger was a pioneer, but he's been verified repeatedly despite the propaganda research from the industry. He showed that harm avoidance is the typical personality developing under the influence of high serotonin autism. If you think of extreme harm avoidance, that would fit with the autistic personality, closing in, not noticing other people. But the idea of fearing harm, wanting things excessively defined, hating open ends, refusing to play or to be exploratory, all of that, the authoritarian personality is in operation throughout the culture.
The media are the perfect example of the obedient authoritarian personality filtering everything in the news. And it makes it almost impossible for a person who's trying to craft their way through this. I mean, it really presents a good challenge, don't you think, to sift through all of that? Yeah, you have to persist in looking at keeping open perspectives and questioning everything, all of the assumptions behind beliefs. Everything is open to question, and the media and people like Fauci are disturbed and want to outlaw.
They're talking about making it a crime to post on Facebook, for example, information showing that vaccinations can be very harmful. They don't want their assumptions questioned to the point of trying to outlaw them. Speaking on that note, Ray, I recently heard, and I don't know if this is confirmable, I think it might be, but I think it was Gates and working with Yale University. And there's a research going on right now in terms of how they can be -- it's like manipulation strategies.
And it's a study that they're trying to figure out how they can manipulate people or persuade people with the ongoing or with the upcoming, like, vaccine push and such. Yeah, they've been industrializing manipulation research and technology for 75 years at least. So any time we go outside and we see a billboard, although I don't know how much we see those anymore, or we turn on our computer and we open up the web browser or we grab a newspaper -- not that many people read newspapers anymore.
But any time we're seeing anything, we have to take it with all this in mind, right? That there's a lot of money that's being put into the messages that are being conveyed to people. Is that true? And manipulating Google is just profoundly influential. People of political science researchers and sociologists have done experiments where they changed the algorithm slightly in a search engine, and they have found that they could absolutely control the vote just by very slight changes in the frequency with which information comes up.
And if it gets pushed off to the second page, you can assure that the candidate will lose. To the extent that the population relies politically on Google for their fact-checking, you can be sure that it's absolutely predetermined from above. The media people are identical with the Google people in what they want. That makes sense, and actually, my wife shared something with me earlier where it was statistics on the world's computer usage or internet usage. And I guess Google was at 97% of all search inquiries or queries in the world.
And I think being by Microsoft was held 3%. And then all these others, like lesser known, but literally 97% of every search that's going on in the world, I guess, is Google. Now, my wife, she mentioned Mojique.com, M-O-J-E-E-K.com. And I'm just saying this for listeners or for people who are interested in trying to get something that's not so controlled. But I don't know. It sounds like we need to get away from using Google as a search engine. Yeah. If you want to question assumptions, that isn't very helpful.
With Facebook maybe coming out with some of the -- I mean, they're already censoring like crazy, as it seems like all the social media platforms. Do you think we should -- if we recognize that things are being censored or that there might be a penalty coming up for even writing or posting something, do you think we should just -- if that is unsettling to us, do you think we should just quit our Facebook account and leave it or -- Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
And you think that's the best plan of attack, that if enough people are -- have enough distaste with that, that they drop it. That's probably a good idea. Yes. So far, email and U.S. Postal Service haven't been too tampered with. Do you think if we use Gmail, though, because that's a Google-sponsored -- Yeah. That will undoubtedly -- if people start using it, it will be censored. Got it. Yeah. So really, the best thing we can do is invite our friends out for a walk, right, and have a perfect conversation? Yeah. Yeah.
The way intelligence operatives have known they had to work. But politicians talk about serious things only while walking in private. Ray, you talked earlier, and I thought this was a great intro to the topic of pregnancy and, like, prenatal and neonatal, and the implications of excessive serotonin during those times. Can you dive into that a little bit more and talk about, really, what some of those kind of nasty implications might be of excessive serotonin during pregnancy?
Yeah. It's clearly established that autism is produced by prenatal inflammation as almost the only clearly established cause is inflammation during the development of the brain. And postnatal problems probably have an influence, but any inflammation during pregnancy increases the delivery of serotonin by the placenta into the fetus. And vasoconstriction is something you don't want in the developing fetus. And that excess, the way it decreases ATP in the brain specifically while increasing lactate,
those slow total development of the brain reduce the brain volume or disturbance growth pattern, at least, the inflammation caused by endotoxin from maternal intestinal irritation or inflammation. But viral or bacterial infection of the mother during pregnancy, those are all known to increase the placenta's delivery of serotonin to the fetus. But vaccination is deliberately intended with the addition of an adjuvant such as aluminum hydroxide. It's designed to increase the inflammatory reactions, and they're actually recommending giving vaccines such as influenza vaccine containing aluminum adjuvant to pregnant women.
All of the steps are known to cause brain damage to the fetus with lifelong effects. And even if it doesn't contain aluminum, there are vaccines that contain other adjuvants, right? Anything that is an adjuvant is there to increase inflammation, and inflammation is exactly the worst thing for pregnancy as well as for life in general and aging. And so even if it were possible to create a vaccine that was free of adjuvant, that was very natural, just certain elements, even if that could be done, it's certainly not being done, right?
And the natural way of interacting with pathogens is to eat them or inhale them or even get them on the skin. And our skin, our lungs, and our intestine have systems for instructing the immune system with a minimum of damage in an organized way to develop a specific immunity. But even natural pathogen exposure, during the AIDS controversies, people were talking about the immune burden in Africa, for example, the total exposure to bacteria, viruses, and parasites.
They sought creating AIDS, immunodeficiency syndrome, without any HIV virus involved, or the HIV virus was simply there as one more of the irritants. And because of the immune burden being associated with that descending view of what causes AIDS, that got out of use. And we certainly talk about immune activation, but if you look up the research using the term immune activation, you'll find the same thing. Degenerative processes increase, cognition decreases in proportion to immune activation from exposure, even to natural pathogens.
But it applies -- the purpose of a vaccine is to activate your immune system, and that's exactly the process that promotes aging and degeneration and serotonin and endotensin, et cetera. So really, physiologically speaking, it just really sounds backwards that we're being taught to believe that vaccines are so valuable. Obviously, it makes someone a lot of money, right, but it just seems so backwards, physiologically speaking. Yeah, and it has prospects of creating trillionaires.
During the pandemic, in the United States alone, in just a matter of a few weeks at the peak of the pandemic, there was a $775 billion increase in the wealth of the already billionaires. A 25% surge in just a few weeks of their wealth, much of it related to the politically manipulated response to the so-called pandemic. It's something that they have foreseen and promoted that we get organized in this way to radically change the economy. And these radical changes, such as the lockdown, happen to be fantastically beneficial, like Jeff Bezos of Amazon.
I think it was in the three-week period that his wealth increased $25 billion. Just unreal. The Pentagon and the Rockefeller Institute, for years, have been advocating online shopping at digital currencies and so on. Set down your local retailers, go to Amazon. And all of this seems to coincide or synergize with, like, not being told to stay inside, and then our lungs and our immune systems, our skin. We're not getting exposed to natural pathogens. And our immune systems aren't given a chance to kind of naturally, you know, protect ourselves, right? Like, it all goes together.
You know, the indoor atmosphere tends to concentrate aerosols, viruses, or bacteria. And in the winter, the lower humidity when you're heating the house, that makes the respiratory membranes extremely sensitive to these aerosols. So staying indoors in the winter is predictable to cause respiratory disease, and getting vaccinated for influenza tremendously increases your next year's susceptibility to capturing the coronavirus. Speaking of serotonin in the early stages, obviously it means that there's a greater -- and autism is skyrocketing and a greater chance of, like, all kinds of, like, trouble.
This also means sickness and rigidity later in life or even in subsequent generations, even if you don't develop autism or something like that, right? You know, serotonin is one of the main factors in increasing DNA methylation, turning off DNA copying into proteins. That happens progressively with aging, and aging and stress cause it to be passed on to the -- through the egg and the sperm, it's passed on to the offspring. It's an acquired genetic change, which tends to persist unless you intervene, tends to just, by its own momentum, persist for four or five generations.
In animals, you see it as reduced brain size following your great-great-grandparents' stress, still influencing the prenatal development of the brain. Are some of these interventions that might be able to stop those processes, like the various things that we're going to be talking about in this conversation that are, like, anticeratoneursic at their base? Yeah. The things that preserve and increase your tissue carbon dioxide are holding down, even if your intestine is producing quite a bit of serotonin.
If your carbon dioxide is being maintained at a high level in your whole body, the titlets will then be able to transport, pick up the serotonin from your intestine and bind it tightly so it passes through your whole blood circulatory system and is carried to the lungs where the sudden release disappearance of the carbon dioxide and surge in of oxygen causes the platelets to spill their serotonin into the lung air chambers where the lung tissue is able -- with mono-amino oxidase functions, your lungs destroy the serotonin.
So every bit of the serotonin in your blood, if your lungs are in good condition without serotonin poisoning, they will destroy the serotonin that's released there. The liver destroys some as the blood passes through there, but the lungs are the main anticeratone organ. And so if you mess with the lungs, such as any irritation, it could be breathing acid vapors, but a virus has a similar effect to interfere with the lungs' ability to destroy serotonin,
creating the poor diffusion of oxygen, but allowing continued loss of carbon dioxide and creating pulmonary hypertension, water logging of the lungs, leading to all of the other degenerative things. So thyroid is an essential thing to maintain because that's the crucial thing for producing a high ratio of carbon dioxide to energy metabolized. Got it. So really in this conversation, all the things that we're talking about that are pro-metabolic and all the things that oppose serotonin and oppose estrogen, oppose stress in general,
are all really practical and fantastic ways to promote this more cellular -- like a better cellular respiratory environment, better go-to environment. Ray, this is great. I want to kind of flip the conversational coin a little bit, and if possible, if you're into it, go kind of into a more optimistic kind of vantage point. Would you be willing to dive deeply into the physiology of playfulness? I do feel like it's kind of the other side of the coin.
Yeah, it's exactly what the organism does as long as it isn't poisoned in the desperation and harm avoidance and authoritarianism. Playfulness is questioning, tentativeness, doubting of everything, testing the environment, a constant openness to experience, listening to possibilities. And that should go on for decades, not just childhood, but the autistic kid loses playfulness right away, never has it. And you can see the imposition of an autistic manner in universities where a third of entering freshmen are now in anxiety states,
a horrible instance of using antidepressants and anti-anxiety drugs in college because of the powerful authoritarian manner that's taking place to survive in the economy. You're supposed to have a degree from a high-quality university, if possible, and have high academic ranking and so on, so you have to please your professors. And the cost is increasing, so that becomes another anxiety-producing factor that it's hard to imagine taking a playful attitude towards higher education. You would be considered insane. The actual higher education is impossible if you don't have a playful attitude.
You're not going to do effective research if you don't start questioning assumptions. The essence of discovering things is to discover the error of the assumptions in the existing way of seeing things. And it sounds like that's exactly why, culturally speaking, we are informed that after a certain age we should not be playful anymore, right, because it exposes the culture itself. Is that true? Yeah. If you look at people like Albert Censorgi, for example, all of his writing, you can see a playfulness and even silliness now and then.
I love that. I'll have to get into more of his work. I haven't read as much as I'd like to. And, Red, do you think the human race is really going downhill and we're going to lose what it means to be kind of a communal, cooperative, compassionate society if, biologically speaking, we're of such low energy that we forget how to play? Yeah. The people who are in power now for the last 40 years, Margaret Thatcher in the '80s in England, summed it up as, "There is no such thing as society."
And that's exactly where people used to realize their potentials was by exploratory interactions in society. The physicists who went off into a private world were, some of them actually, mathematical physicists, sometimes with their alternate universe theories, actually got so deeply involved that they were functionally insane. Wow. And it's like wasting our chance at human existence, right? I mean, it just feels like such a waste. Yeah. They are deliberately destroying playfulness and the sense of society.
What are some other examples to you, Ray, of how sense of humor goes along with playfulness in terms of – you mentioned Szent-Györgyi and how he had elements of humor play in his work. I think William Blake is history's best example of using a kind of silliness of not accepting anyone's established meaning for the important words. Looking at the basic things that people say and then opening up the possibilities, showing what their momentum of accumulated beliefs has – how it has limited their understanding
and showing the opposite potential of the standard accepted words is using punning in a constructive way. Do analogies fit right in with that? Yeah. You have to use metaphor and analogy constantly. If you don't, your brain isn't working at all. Interesting. Ray, there's a few quotes I'd love to share with you, if you don't mind, and just listen to your perspective on them. I've collected these over the years, and I've often kind of like reflected on them. One is – I guess this was attributed to St. Bernard of Clairvoy.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. And another one is Alan Watts' line, where he quips, "Kindly let me help you, or you will drown," said the monkey, putting the fish safely up a tree. And then a third is Schopenhauer, who said, "It is perfectly obvious the whole world is going to hell. The only possible chance that it might not is that we do not attempt to prevent it from doing so."
So in thinking about those lines, do you think there might be a lot of people who are just so ambitious to help the world and change things that they really don't know enough and maybe they're just mucking it up? Yeah, the road to hell, paved with good intentions, illustrates the idea that the brain shouldn't get focused on planning but on receptivity. Like Carl Rogers, he did a study of therapists and their effectiveness. He found out that the ideology or theory of how they were doing therapy had nothing to do with their success.
It was simply their personality. If they were receptive and perceptive, they were successful. What they were intending was irrelevant because to the extent that you are preordaining the outcome by planning, you're limiting, closing off possible futures. You're blocking your receptivity to the extent that you're planning. That seems to go in line with something I've read of yours where you said, it was in one of your articles, you said that all knowledge is basically provisional. Does that kind of go in the same line?
Yeah. When you know something, it becomes part of your memory, and that means that it is fixed, your memory should stay in contact with the context where it was formed. From established knowledge, you can make deductions, but you're never going to learn anything new by making deductions or planning based on established knowledge. So recognizing that that is closed to the extent that it is merely memory, then you see that there's a constant inflow from the environment causing you to have to reorder what the past means, what your memory means.
So instead of being able to make deductions from the existing knowledge that you have, you have to be open and questioning, constantly moving into the unknown future because that's the source of all possibility and making your knowledge more valid. And thinking of memory as anything concrete is really an oxymoron, isn't it? I remember I think you were talking with Danny Roddy and Georgi Dinkov, and you were talking about how memory, when we access memory, really, we're not accessing anything that's there, that we're creating something new every time we go into memory, right?
Yeah. Your organism developed with that experience, and each experience is part of your organism because you developed through that stage, and so you're making inferences about the past from your present knowledge. The organism is always changing as a unit. Ray, you mentioned in an earlier conversation of ours that anxiety and panic attacks are very closely related to serotonin and what you call the generalized energy inflammation problem.
And you said that that, along with the general public acceptance of the fascist ideology that blocks some of the hopeful recuperative escape routes that earlier generations had, could you go into that a little more? And in terms of the fascist ideology, what is that that you're talking about? The closing receptivity, if you are in a fearful state, you hope that something will save you, and in that fearful state, you aren't going out and questioning things. You tend to become dependent, and any power source that promises to save you tends to ineffectively be worshiped.
And so the anxious college student is, in effect, worshipping the professor or the potential employer who is going to save his status and society or his general well-being. And so the professor, the future employer, and the government that empowers those powers, all of those become life-central factors. It's a life-and-death matter for the person in this anxiety state, and so they become very dangerous. They are organizable, useful to the powers, but they hate anyone who descends, and they will, to defend themselves, that they feel they have to destroy opposition.
And so it leads into an organic, sadistic kind of power system. Unlike a type of a war path, so to speak. Yeah. So it sounds like a summary of this fascist ideology is really everything we're talking about, which is culturally debilitating, for the most part, right? Yeah, I see the mask wearing as a symbolic indicator of the fascist mentality spreading. I've seen too many incidents or reports of incidents where someone who's wearing a mat will, like, yell or push or get into it with someone who's not wearing it. Yeah, right. It's just nuts.
Ray, a friend of mine once mentioned, and this is just like going kind of into the deeper picture of the organism. I'm just curious about this, and if this kind of analogy kind of works. But he mentioned that it might be helpful to think of the organism as a wire for flowing electrons, and that everything that withdraws electrons might help them flow from their origin, like food, to their final destination, like oxygen, methyl and blue, CO2, and vice versa, that everything that inhibits that flow will be disease-causing.
Is this kind of a reasonable way to look at it? If you think of it as a big, fat, complex wire, the flow of electrons is the thing that differentiates and causes progression and sensitivity and all those things. And anything that blocks that flow is triggering the defensive closing reactions, inflammation, calcification, apathy. Okay, and maybe like a big complex tube also, right, like things come in and things go out? What was that? I've heard people talk about the organism as like a big complex tube.
Also, yeah, the carbon dioxide is one of the things that facilitates smooth conduction and differentiation. And so you have a controlled inflow of oxygen and carbon dioxide out as the beginning and end of that electron flow. Other than like living at high altitude and some of the other things that we've talked about that might be real therapeutic as far as CO2 is concerned, do you have any other nuggets? Avoiding polyunsaturated fats is very important because any time you're under stress, they become an important part of that damage cycle,
estrogen, serotonin, nitric oxide, anthotensin and so on. And it doesn't matter if the stress is real or perceived, right? Is this is happening when you think that you're under stress? Yeah, the tightening process of anxiety goes with hyperventilation. The polyunsaturated fats interfere with mitochondrial respiration and with movement and use of thyroid hormone and so on. So they are acting as insulators, reducing the whole level of the flow of energy. Okay. And, Ray, I know you've done this a million times, and so I appreciate you fielding a question like this.
But just for listeners who, they hear the word polyunsaturated fats and maybe they're not clear as to like what food sources of polyunsaturated fats might be culprit. Could you just go into briefly like what are some really big examples of things that can be destructive as far as polyunsaturated fats? All of the liquid cooking oils and fish oil are high in polyunsaturated fats. Olive oil has the virtue of tasting very good in small quantities, but it contains 8% or 10% of the toxic polyunsaturated fats.
So I think it's good to be restrained in use of even a good oil like olive oil. Butter and coconut oil are 3%, so even those, I think, should be used in moderation, making sure that you're able to burn immediately the fats that you're eating so that there isn't a noticeable amount of polyunsaturated fats to go into storage to build up and deteriorate and come out later as a sort of terminal stressor.
Does that ability to burn fat and use it have anything to do with the Randle cycle as far as like your body's preference of? Yeah, under stress, you liberate fatty acids which block the use of oxygen to use glucose, and so it slows down your whole oxidative process but shifts it so that you are oxidizing fat instead of glucose. And that leads to a production of lactic acid with necessary stress. So fasting or the ketogenic diet puts you into that reducing stress state, reductive stress.
So when a person gets even hungry, they've almost – I mean, when someone's really so hungry and they start to notice that they're becoming heritable, is this a sign of almost you've gone too long without eating too? Yeah, when you get irritable, it's because you're being internally – you're sensing that something is damaging you, and so it's a defensive aggression. Ray, I want to ask you about a few other supplements I'm just really curious about. I've been curious about for years.
I've done some research, and a couple of them – the cat for me is still not out of the bag, so to speak, but one of them is theanine. It's a compound in green tea leaves. Does this fit into the picture of like reducing serotonin at all? I think it has a moderate effect. Okay, and so it's worth maybe experimenting with, you think? As far as I know, it's harmless, so I think it's okay to experiment with it.
And that's differentiating between green tea, which has other stuff in it that maybe we don't want, and just the isolated amino acids being – Yeah, actually black tea with its caffeine is better for most things. Okay, what about taurine? I've heard a lot about taurine. Do you know anything about the amino acid taurine? I know a lot of people who use it seemingly without harm, but I'm not confident enough that it has any value that I would use it myself. Okay, cool.
With supplements like these or any other supplements that might antagonize serotonin, is there ever like a rebound effect for any of these substances? Nothing that I know of. Okay, so the body won't like respond – if it lowers serotonin, it won't respond on the other side with like increasing it or something? No, I think the body is happy when the serotonin goes down. Awesome. That was something that I've been curious about. What about sodium, Ray?
I wanted to touch on a few things before we kind of move into the end of our talk, and I really appreciate your time again. It's so cool. But what about sodium as it relates to lowering serotonin? I think a lot of people have the idea, at least from people who I've chatted with, that they seem to think that salt is bad. I know so many people who are actually trying to restrict salt. Can you talk about that a little bit?
The restriction of salt overlaps in several ways with the restriction of calcium, and both of those – when you restrict salt, you increase aldosterone, and aldosterone activates parathyroid hormone, which activates removal of calcium from your bones and all of those degenerative processes. So restricting sodium ends up in the same place in some ways as restricting calcium, and getting enough vitamin D and calcium, you can tolerate changes in your sodium intake better if you have a very generous intake of calcium and vitamin D.
The suppression of aldosterone by eating more sodium than you need corresponds closely to the inhibition of parathyroid hormone when you eat more calcium and vitamin D than the minimum requirement. And aldosterone activates not only parathyroid hormone the way serotonin does, but it even turns on some estrogen processes in the tissue. So restricting sodium is very dangerous in the long run as far as degenerative inflammatory processes go. I think that was a really good summary. And I know you also mentioned vitamin D, right?
If we're not getting outside and getting an hour or so of good sunlight a day, would vitamin D supplement, like as a – I think it's colocalciferol, would that be a legitimate way to supplement vitamin D? Yeah, vitamin D3. Make sure you aren't getting the fungal vitamin D2. It has many of the good functions, but it probably doesn't have all of the good functions that D3 has.
And it seems like the protective level of 50 or 60 nanograms per milliliter of 25 hydroxycolic calciferol, to keep those levels up, most people seem to need 4 or 5,000 units of vitamin D per day as a supplement if they aren't getting. If they aren't getting lots of sunlight. Okay, cool. That's good to know. Ray, I had a question. It's kind of related to LSD, but I've noticed in my experience a few times with psilocybin that it does kind of act as a kind of like dissipator of the filter of perception.
And I'm curious if it acts in similar ways as like LSD in that regard? Do you know much about that? No. I've never eaten that kind of mushrooms. Okay. Yeah, I'm just totally curious, just experimentally curious about that. Yeah, the Mexican rituals using the psilocybin mushrooms produced very interesting results that actually seemed they considered it their long distance mail service. Oh, wow. Okay, quinine. My last question about kind of like different things that might be agents that can be used to lower serotonin.
Quinine, like in a good tonic water, is that a serotonin antagonist, you know? I don't know. Okay. Yeah, I want to look more into that. I've experimented with that through the years because I think I've read that somewhere. And I'm super curious about that. Okay, Ray, just curious, you know, before we go on with our days here, what are some things that you're currently desiring in or of life, Ray? And like in relation to like some of the things that are going on, like what could maybe be the best thing that we hope for?
And what are some things that you're really excited that you're working on? Oh, I continue working on the issue of reductive stress, which everything in our environment is tending to increase. And so my hope is that all of those things can be brought under control. And that means massive changes in the population, stopping being so fearful and obedient and start working on constructive alternatives for the future, rather than the constricted closing of opportunity, such as opposing online education, I think is an important place to start putting attention,
because the government has coerced schools and universities into reducing actual classes, turning them into online things, which the direction they're already plotting essentially to improve the online education quality by firing most of the professors and having a great multiplication of the students using the approved Pew Harvard Yale Stanford professors, for example, and augmenting them with virtual reality artificial intelligence, which will take – to have the best virtual reality supplements to the elite lectures. They will have elite corporations producing the very best virtual reality programs so that everything is tending towards monopoly,
and online education is the shortest route to absolute monopoly. Do you think the best way to oppose this kind of thing is to kind of grassroots, like form, experiential, experience-based kind of communities? And I mean, because it seems like a lot of teachers are quitting also, because the teachers who don't want to go that route are just quitting, which almost seems like it's almost making it easier for this to happen. I mean, what's the best way to oppose something like that? Yeah, they would be fired eventually anyway. Yeah.
And so that's creating the opportunity, if it occurs to people to take advantage of it, we can organize separately from it. Do you think there's a – if there is an organization separate from it, communities formed and such, do you think there's – our days of being able to operate away from some of the nonsense are numbered, or do you think there's still a chance for us to do that? I mean – I think it all depends on how fast people can realize that they're being tricked and defrodden and robbed. Yeah.
Do you think you're going to be sticking around where you are for a while, or do you think there's a relocation for you at some point? Yep. I'm hopeful that it can happen in the next year or so. Me too. Ray, this has been wonderful. I know our listeners are going to love this. Below the talk in the info, I'm going to link a couple of the articles that I've read over the years and really gleaned a lot of information in regards to serotonin and serotonin issues. And I'm going to put your website on there.
And other than that, do you have any kind of parting words for people who might be listening? Nope. Investigating the tricks that they're using to promote the happy hormone idea of serotonin, just investigating how crooked science is being made by the marketing industries. That's one entry point to seeing how the whole system has rigged just a vast interlocking system of corruption. Yeah, I love that.
It seems like a lot of people now are like people who are confronting the dogma and like the things that are coming out of scientific institutions and saying, "Hey, that's not right." And now they're being labeled by all the obedient people as anti-science. I think it's funny. Where reality is, right, like the people who are actually questioning this stuff are actually practicing science because it's fullest. Yeah, you have good science versus corrupt science. Yeah, I like that. Well, Ray, have a wonderful rest of your day. And this has been amazing. I really appreciate your time.
And thank you for the talk. Okay, thank you. Bye. All right, bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]