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Okay, General Energy, number 85, and we have Ray Peat and Georgi Dinkov on the line. Ray, how are you? Very good. Thank you so much for doing this. Really appreciate it, even with the time mishap, but thank you so much for bearing with us, and I hope you had time to drink your coffee. And yeah, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Anyways, okay, so I've listened to the bits about protein that you've been talking about, and I thought maybe anchoring the show in that would be kind of the most interesting thing.
I'm not necessarily looking for you to tell everybody how much protein to eat per se, but more like, I mean, as long as I've been following your work, you've been talking, maybe referencing that 1999 military study, 80 to 100 grams of protein per person, and then occasionally if somebody would ask you, you'd say, "Maybe even more would be better." And so I'm more interested in how you shifted your thinking on this, and so maybe laying that out for us would be interesting, and then I have more questions about it.
Yeah, it really started in the 1970s. I was volunteering for a free clinic in Eugene, and at that time they were burning grass fields, producers of grass seeds for lawns, and everyone had respiratory disease because of the summer constant smoke. And I had found that stopping certain supplements had greatly reduced my allergies, and so I just suggested that since everyone was taking every conceivable supplement with no benefit at all, I mentioned that to these allergy people at the clinic, and all of them got over their symptoms despite the field burning continuing.
And then they said, "If that silly idea worked, what other ideas do you have?" I said, "Well, stop eating toxic junk like tofu and bean salad with lettuce and cucumbers and various seeds and indigestible material, all the stylish, hippie stuff. Stop eating that and just try milk and cheese and eggs and meat and a more digestible diet." And so everyone did, and they said, "Oh, the wonders of a high-protein diet." It wasn't high-protein. It was just low junk food basically, uncooked, indigestible materials.
So it wasn't intended as a specially high or low-protein diet, but for years, people ate a healthy diet and it was considered high-protein. But if you're an active person in your 20s, you're very likely to be burning 4,000 or 5,000 calories per day of whatever nutrients. And so 100 grams of protein in a 5,000-calorie diet with lots of carbohydrates isn't a bad ratio at all. So to you, maybe there hasn't really been a change or a shift, and maybe that's like a perception of people that are listening.
Because you don't have to broadcast every single thing that you do every day, so maybe this isn't really new to you. When you, for many years now, have been talking about amino, restriction of essential amino acids, a sign in restriction in animals increased their lifespan by 40%, and you've got an additional percent for restricting cysteine and tryptophan and other essential amino acids. So it's extremely life-extending to limit certain essential amino acids. And when you look at something that Broda Barnes noticed about 50 years ago, I guess,
he tried a high-protein diet, and for years he had been taking two grains of Armour thyroid every day. And on increasing the meat in his diet, he had to take four grains of Armour every day to maintain his functions. And so those two things have been out there as items of interest, the messianic restriction and longevity and the anti-thyroid effect of generally higher protein, and the life-extending benefits of the immunosuppressive target of rapamycin inhibitors, the rapamycin type of antibiotic suppresses our growth called mammalian rapamycin, and so that explains a big part
of the mechanism behind messianine restriction, longevity, and protein inhibition of energy production in a safe way. So you're saying blocking the mTOR pathway is life-extending? Which pathway? Well, the abbreviation that they typically use in studies is mTOR, mammalian target of -- yeah. Yeah, inhibiting that is good. Well, you know, some of the main arguments of the caloric restriction crowd is that that's precisely why they advocate people eating less, up to like 40 to 50 percent less of the calories, because that's what basically blocks the mTOR pathway and activates the
PGC-1-alpha, I guess, is the opposite one? Well, it isn't actually calories, it's the anti-metabolic effect of those specific amino acids. I see. So maybe five or so years ago you had written to somebody saying you didn't really feel right with that like 120 grams of protein. So was that something personal that you had experienced, maybe experimenting with a lower amount, given the situation you find yourself in, and said to yourself that the methionine was maybe more thyroid suppressive than you had originally thought?
Around the age of 30, everyone's mitochondria are being suppressed, so your metabolism is much slower after middle age, and that means that it's much more susceptible to being suppressed by those unnecessary amino acids. So but you're saying if you're young you could need normal 100 grams of protein or so, but in later age you don't need as much, you maybe need 50 or somewhere around there, is that right? Right, right. And the carbohydrates go up as you, the ability to metabolize carbohydrates go up as you reduce your protein suppression, suppression of metabolism.
And then what about sick people or just generally people that don't feel well, should they reduce their protein intake or be conscious of it? Well for example having fruit juice when you're sick, a very high carbohydrate diet is very protective. A lot of that is because the proteins, even though they're anti-inflammatory for your digestive system, if they're beyond that very low level, whatever, 50 grams a day maybe, they're going to slow your metabolism. Let me rephrase this, would this be a useful tool in the toolbox for a person to regain
their health back is to try different amounts of protein including the lower amounts? Oh yeah, but especially different amounts of carbohydrate and different types. And you just reminded me to talk about the grape juice because I think that's really valuable. This just reminds me of the experiment the Russians did showing that you can survive and in fact thrive on a diet of nothing but potatoes and butter. Considering that potatoes have all these keto acids and basically the rest of it is carbs,
would you say that would be a decent kind of diet for an older person or a hyper-metabolic person? Oh yeah, everyone since Adele Davis maybe before have commented on how well so many old people do living on tea and toast for example or jello and toast. That's the real repeat diet. So what can one do to limit the dangers of starch even in well-cooked potatoes because we don't want that starch, right? Just for energy if it's well-cooked or with butter to prevent preservation.
So the butter is the main, like other saturated fats are basically the main protective factor when eating starch? Yeah, combined thorough cooking with a little butter to assure its breakdown. Ray for yourself, how did you arrive at the 50 grams? Like what was that calculation? How did that happen? Oh, just that it's hard to eat less. Even with the juices, as you reach a gallon of orange juice, your protein is going up considerably. And that's fairly difficult to do. You probably have to modulate your milk intake and meat and things like that.
Even though calcium in milk helps to keep your thyroid function going, you have to at first somewhat limit your milk and cheese and egg intake and even well-cooked vegetables. You can choose some that have a little over-messianic content. And then was the grape juice useful for this new experiment? I don't know how new it is, but the things you're doing now, because to maybe offset with the huge amount of carbohydrate you would need to increase it? Yeah, it does have a huge amount of carbohydrate.
You have to be careful because it can osmotically upset your digestion. The grape juice? Yeah, I can only tolerate two or three ounces at a time. And so I guess, how many carbohydrates are you eating? I'm not saying this so everybody should do it, I'm just curious of what you're doing. Maybe you're eating well over 500 grams or so? Just about in that range, 500 or 600 I think. Mainly from orange juice? Oh no, a lot of very well-cooked vegetables, just for taste variety. I just can't gag down that much grape juice and orange juice.
And then I promise we'll move on, but how has this changed your liver consumption and your egg consumption? Like, do you eat less liver each week? I'm very, very much less. Like one or two ounces? Currently it's hard to get good organic liver such as chicken liver, and so whenever that's available we'll have some chicken livers with bacon, but that might be only once in two months. Oh well. But maybe if the butcher in Oregon had liver, would your preference be to, or be ruminant liver, would your preference be for that?
It's just not available given all the crazy things that are happening? No, chicken livers with bacon are very unpleasant. Fair enough. That's a good answer. I think that settles it. But why would the change in dietary, in the macro ratios change the intake of liver for you as well? You feel like you need less? You don't feel like I need less. But liver is a huge source of methionine, right? Yeah. And really early on, probably ten years ago, I think I ate eight ounces of liver and I
felt real cold afterwards, and then the next day felt especially hypothyroid. So it might be just good for posterity. The methionine, what is the specific mechanism that it's suppressing the thyroid function? Or is it doing lots of different things? Lots of things. I don't know what the most important mechanism is. Fair enough. And we can move on and Georgi, interrupt me at any time here. Something I've noticed, you had mentioned it a long time ago, that people with a physically larger brain might notice symptoms really quickly.
They have really high energy requirements, and if those requirements weren't met, they would notice it and kind of nuance symptoms about their health. You know, that idea, I keep thinking about it because the people I talk to are all really interesting. They're all interesting people with interesting ideas, with different backgrounds, and I would bet that they're very, I mean, I know they're intelligent. And so, but some of the smartest people will notice the tiniest little defects in their body. And so I was wondering if you could just speak about brain metabolism and then noticing symptoms.
Yeah, the brain requires, in an absolute sense, a steady supply of glycogen and glucose. So just excited thinking can consume really large amounts of sugar. And checking your blood pressure, it's called the pulse pressure or the difference between systolic and diastolic pressures. If everything is running smoothly with enough blood sugar, you'll have a systolic that's at least 50 points, about 50 points higher than the diastolic, very often lower. But if you're having a problem with your glucose, you're going to have increased difference with maybe 75 points higher systolic than diastolic.
And if you get in that condition from excitation or whatever cause, anything that depletes your systemic glycogen, then by checking your pulse pressure frequently and increasing your glucose and starch intake considerably, every few hours checking it and having more glucose, you can tell when you have replenished the glycogen source because suddenly your difference between systolic and diastolic will come down to 40 or 45 points difference. Wow, that's useful to know. And then in the same kind of line of questioning, would you expect somebody that had a real
low rate of metabolism and maybe had, I mean, we all have imperfect development, but somebody with like a physically smaller brain or something that had three vaccines and just taking finasteride and stuff and says they don't notice the difference, but like maybe somebody that's running at a really low level would not notice these like toxic insults that are happening every moment of the day to them. Could that equally be true? I think it is. People that take SRI drugs are basically very prone to not only self-harm, but also like
getting wounds that they sometimes they sit there and fester because they ignored them, they never felt the pain and they couldn't disinfect them. So people with high serotonin, I think they tend to experience higher emotional pain, but they're numbed at the extremities. And I've noticed several people around me that are taking these drugs. They often have these wounds and scrapes on them that look pretty ghastly and they only notice them when I point them out. They claim they didn't hurt when they actually happened.
Yeah, that sort of thing eventually is corrected by keeping your thyroid chronically a lot higher. And then keeping in line with the things I'm learning from the people I talk to, I'm probably talking to like four people right now that can take 200 milligrams of Progest-E and it has no effect whatsoever, but they all seem to uniformly benefit from antibiotics, like specifically the tetracyclines or the macrolides. But they don't necessarily have digestive problems per se. And so clearly they're, or maybe they're benefiting from the antibiotics anti-inflammatory effect.
And then again, I know this is kind of redundant because you've talked about this a lot, but what do you think is a good approach or strategies for somebody that might have a nitric oxide problem if that's what's going on and their liver is not maybe responding to the huge amount of progesterone? Would a small amount of T3 be useful, like one or two micrograms per hour? I think so. And it all works. Everything that you have to regulate with, nervous system, hormones, digestive enzyme
balance and so on, all of those are involved so that your cholinergic nervous system activity and your adrenergic system are activated in different ways. The helplessness cholinergic reflexes interfere with everything good so that you make more nitric oxide for example and slow things down and cause inflammatory damage. Is there something I'm not thinking of that would be useful for that situation? Like oh, I have an experience with this person writing me that they overcame that situation with XYZ or is it like a... Go ahead.
Looking at the whole picture and seeing which you're in most desperate need of. What about the tool in the toolbox of reducing protein? Would that be especially useful for somebody maybe with like a... Do you think what I'm describing is liver disease? Like a person not responding to the progesterone? Yeah, and that can be a quickly repaired thing by getting the glycogen up. The liver turns off just like the brain if it hasn't stored enough glycogen and that is a matter of two or three days often.
So for liver disease, glycogen should be the top priority and glycogenesis can't happen without T3 and progesterone and enough carbohydrate? Yeah. Since you mentioned the cholinergic system, do you think that's the main risk of people using nicotine besides its many beneficial effects? The problem is that it is the direct activator of the acetylcholine receptors. The problem with using which? Well, several people have asked you about using nicotine from tobacco as a chewing gum or actually as a tincture or just as an isolated substance and you've said several times that it may be beneficial.
It's got a number of beneficial effects but you're wary of it and you don't recommend long-term use and do you think that the fact that nicotine is actually a direct ligand for that system, an activator of the cholinergic system, do you think that's the main risk associated with it? I think that's likely. It's part of your cholinergic system and you can't be sure how the nicotine is going to fit into the anti-inflammatory system. It has that potential but it can do the opposite too and turn on cancer metabolism.
Why do you think that tobacco consumption is so widespread among indigenous cultures, especially the ones that are in the Americas? Because it's stimulating value, psychologically it can tone things up and make you function. So it's mostly as a stimulant, as a widely available stimulant? Yeah, I think so. Just going back to the glycogen for a second, two things I know you've mentioned that can deplete the liver of its glycogen, the estrogen and maybe the serotonin and maybe they're working on the same mechanism.
Does the methionine, how does that relate to the estrogen and the serotonin, does that tend to increase them? Yeah. It has a demobilizing function and the methyl groups are in a constant battle. There's been too much emphasis on people who don't have enough methyl groups and not enough on the danger of an excess methyl pressure. So in addition to the methionine and the insulinogenic effects of the protein, that could be a slippery slope for a person with an under-functioning liver. Mm-hmm. Okay, just a few more and then we can talk about cultural things.
And Ray, I'm not going to keep you too long. And so the other thing that's completely unrelated. But Ray, lidocaine as a topical for hair loss, what do you think about that? It's generally self-protective and I don't know anyone who has tried it, but since it works for all kinds of very serious conditions, even helping with cancer and brain injury, it's almost always a good thing to try. There is a -- oh, sorry, go ahead. It prevents energy waste and so working at the simple level of available energy, it makes everything better.
And then I have at least one paper in regards to so-called pattern baldness. They say investigation should be done on mast cell inhibitors for pattern baldness. And so obviously, the lidocaine would help with that, right? Mm-hmm. And the whole world wants me to ask you about the massage thing. And so everybody is asking, what is he specifically talking about? What type of massage? So in my point of view, the massage ideas that were going around were like, don't stop until your head is inflamed and red and has obvious inflammation in it.
So what type of massage were you thinking about that you thought could increase hair growth? Oh, just a very gentle massage such as gently rubbing oil into it. You don't want to cause inflammation. And the mechanism there might be -- obviously, it feels good, but maybe increasing the blood flow to the area that is a problem with the hair loss? Yeah, feeling good is a good way to increase blood flow. If you increase blood flow by irritation, that's because you're doing damage that causes lactic acid production and blocking good energy production.
So a very soft, stimulating, pleasure-giving massage is the opposite of a rough, irritating massage. Thanks for that. And last question from me, and then we can move on. The most -- maybe you can concur, but the most common thing with thyroid dosing with Cynoplus and Cynomel is overdosing. Maybe once a week, somebody tells me I started with a tablet of Cynoplus and a tablet of Cynomel just as a starting dose. And so I have a few questions for you about this.
So one, we've talked many, many times about maybe 10 micrograms of T3 being kind of a limit for dosing thyroid, or maybe even an arbitrary limit, and using that with a meal. When you take 15 or 20, what -- maybe you had said previously that the liver creates enzymes to destroy it really quickly. Maybe you can just expand on that a bit. Yeah, so after a couple of weeks of doing that, you are -- after maybe 10 or 12 hours after that overdose, you have plunged to a hypothyroid state.
And if you're dosing it only once or twice a day, those ups and downs become really extreme and can do things like stopping your heart rate when your thyroid dips sharply. And then just because we've been talking about it so much, for a person with liver disease, in your experience and from what you've read, do they tend to do better on smaller doses of T3 or bigger doses? Like what -- Oh, smaller. I think no one should supplement thyroid until they've read at least one of Broda Barnes' books.
Maybe the "It's Not Your Mind, It's Your Liver," the "Hope for Hypoglycemia?" Yeah. I think they just started reprinting that as a side note. And shoot, I had another question about the T3. Oh, do you think it's a good idea to -- like I've seen the overdosing stuff so often that I started recommending people buy $20 milligram scales. And as annoying as that is, I'm just worried about people taking too much. And so if they measure a tablet of Cynomel, which is usually about 100 milligrams, and
then they do that cross-reference math, and then they find the microgram dosage, do you think that's a good way to do it? Or is that too -- is that crazy? I'm not sure whether they're actually going to be getting the right amount of T3. If it's well distributed in the tablet, I think powdering a Cynomel tablet and figuring that you're taking two or three micrograms at a time, you're in least danger of having a suppression. So that's good to know. So I did not know that.
So you think there could be a huge amount of T3 on one side of the pill and not enough on the other side? It's just conceivable. Very interesting. I appreciate you pointing that out. And then once it's powdered, if a person wants to go for accuracy, they could measure it? Yeah, but I would tend to go by the label. If it's Cynomel or Cynomel, I think you can count on the amount per tablet being accurate. But none of the generics that I've tried has been reliably to the potency that they claim.
But once you powder a Cynomel tablet, if somebody was in a precarious situation and they're like, "Okay, I'm going to try two micrograms," how do you even go about doing that? You'd have to have a scale, right? Just by visual judgment, you powder a 25-microgram tablet and divide it into 10 apparently equal pieces. Okay, fair enough. I know you're maybe resistant to recommending a super complex type of thing, but if a person wanted to go for very accurate doses, do you think that's a bad idea to do the scale?
Would that not be as accurate as the person thinks it is? It's misleading because your body isn't that accurate. The body responds very differently every time. There's no scale equivalent in the body. It's always a new experience for the body. But what you're saying is it's basically impossible to get an accurate dose of thyroid and you just have to go off feeling, which I can accept. By the feeling, right? Your temperature, pulse rate and feeling. Okay, fair enough.
Okay, I guess we'll let you go really soon here, Ray, but I just wanted to catch up on the cultural stuff. So maybe, I don't know, three, four months ago, we asked you, "Are things still going to plan?" And I just wanted to get your update about that. Do you still think things are going to plan? Not our plan, the oligarchs' insane psycho plan. Which things? Like the things you're seeing right now with the war and the rallying about monkeypox and everything that's happening and then the Fed starting to talk about the digital dollar
and servers being online in February 2023. I guess sometimes a person will say, "Hey, I think their plan is failing." So do you think that? Is that your orientation, that things are not going well for them? Oh, yeah, everything they're doing is becoming stupid and obvious, but they have rigged it so that stupid and obvious aren't impediments to going ahead. The banks say that there's simply no alternative to digital money and they're just going ahead with it according to plan.
It takes time to write all of the programs to manage all of the money in the world in a stereotyped manner so that no one has actual money but everyone is on a retainer of a certain loud amount of money. As soon as they can write the programs to administer that, they're intending it to come out in something like two or three years just to get the bank machinery set up to do it. Even though everyone who thinks about it realizes it's absolutely evil, deadly, going to ruin
the whole ecosphere, they have created essentially a mass dementia, an epidemic of dementia in which people can't even begin to think about how to get out of that deadly fate. So a more direct question, as you now see, I mean I'm sure you've seen, Russia and China are basically, have solidified their union. Russia has said, "We're done with the West. It's over." They're about to start their own currency. The BRICS, Brazil, Russia, India and China, the organization, and now they've added more to that organization, is also about to launch its own currency backed by commodities.
What do you think is going to happen over the next six to 12 months in the West without food and potentially without raw materials for energy in Europe and maybe even in the United States? Are we looking at a mass famine event here in the States in the next six to 12 months? The production of grain by Ukraine and Russia is still there so that the worst of starvation in the southern world can be alleviated, but everything is going to be under maximum tension
and the only thing that is keeping away a sort of terminal starvation condition is the success of the Russian-Chinese third world axis. They are on the threshold of a successful world economy and the main danger of that is that the West can't see any non-demanded solutions, so they're increasingly likely to resort to nuclear weapons. We're basically looking at World War III because the West is now out of options. I just don't see what the West has remaining. Obviously, they're going to try to go full fascism first just to keep the population
under control, but still that doesn't resolve the immediate situation, which is the economy of the West is done. There's literally almost no productive activity left here. Do you think that now with the Federal Reserve raising interest rates and the economy formally, not that there was much of it remaining before, but even now the fake money is going to disappear or at least significantly be curtailed because of the higher interest rate, do you foresee things getting rougher over the next six to 12 months or do you think there's some kind of an opportunity for improvement?
No, I think the West is just committed to everything getting worse. Ray, you echoed, I'm kicking myself because I can't remember this reporter's name, but he's in the Ukraine and he basically said that the Ukraine is getting slaughtered by Russia right now, then he thought the US would then send in troops, they would also get slaughtered, and then the only thing the US could do is, because they never apparently said they would not do a first strike, that they would use nuclear weapons. Do you think that is a plausible scenario?
Yes, the state of dementia that they have created for themselves leads almost inexorably to that. Was that Goncalo Lieber? Yes. He's really funny. Yeah, I mean he's compelling. Does your animal instinct, the first signal system, does it tell you right now that the West is done? Yeah, I never hear Lieber say anything wrong. He is extremely compelling and him being close to the action is also pretty useful. He had another one saying that, we've talked about this on a podcast before, but the Americans
have such a strong normalcy bias that they can't see what's coming right around the corner. I feel like I experience that every day. I feel like this is wartime, but I'm not saying people should have my crazy attitude or whatever, but people seem like they're kind of complacent or think because we're in a reprieve from this crazy, like masks are disappearing and stuff, that things are going to get better. But I mean, if he's right, things are just going to get significantly worse fast, like really quickly within the next six months or so. Yeah.
I think it's approximately the schedule that I think is inevitable. Have you bought any canned food that can last you a few months? No, the cans are a nuisance. I always have a barrel of coconut oil and some powdered milk and a lot of grains. And sugar, right? George said and sugar, right? And what? Sugar, and bald or sugar, basically, white sugar. The low protein stuff is actually pretty useful entering into a dystopian future. Exactly, right? So less eggs and, oh, we didn't really talk about that, but what, has your egg consumption also decreased?
Yeah, the good thing about the carbohydrates is that they're cheap, will continue to be quickly produced and are easy to preserve. So if you just avoided the methionine, the PUFA, the iron, all the food additives, even walking into a dystopian future, you could probably feel relatively okay. Possibly. Yeah. Okay. I've talked to, I mean, because I always try to see the arguments of the other side. So over the years, ever since this whole thing, the craziness with the pandemic started, I tried to talk to some moderates and some people really at the other extreme.
And over the last two years, everybody that was moderate, that was willing to consider that maybe there was some nefariousness, but they're trying to kind of like buy their time and see how things go. Every single one of these people has been so-called red-pilled, have moved towards the side that says, "Wow, things are really bad." And then the people who used to be simply optimistic now have become extreme to the point that they don't even want to be bothered. And whenever you bring stuff up about like potential world war or anything like that,
they just refuse to listen, which to me is saying that we are living in very extreme times. One last thing about the nuclear war. There's nothing to do about that. Like if they, I mean, if they use nukes, like there's no amount of, I mean, have you made any preparations whatsoever if that happens? Just to drive south as quickly as possible. Or towards the middle of the country where they probably wouldn't waste the nuke on? Yeah, but the clouds will concentrate over the northern hemisphere.
So the farther south you go, the quicker, the less likely you are to be quickly killed. Would you have to go, the closer to the equator, the better? Yeah. In Mexico, would you have to go to like Chiapas or would Michoacan be the best place to be for that? Yeah, I think for the present, Michoacan is good. High altitude, moderate rainfall. What will be some remedies, potential for low level radiation exposure? Especially if it doesn't kill immediately or cause cancer over the next year, what could be some things that could decrease the long term damage?
Using fossil, if you have a greenhouse, heating it with fossil fuels so that you avoid such things as strontium fallout and get stable calcium. Avoid the frequent things that are very quick to absorb radiation. Avoid vegetables that are growing right after the fallout. But that would include also animal food, right? Because the radiation will concentrate in their bones and brain and the fat tissue? Yeah. And so old food, if you find old stores of dehydrated or canned foods, they're the first thing to use.
Last thing for me, one of the common retorts, if I'm talking about Mexico with somebody, is that they don't want to go because of the cartels here. You know what, in a dystopian future with a nuclear radiation sea, what do you see the cartels function as when things get really bad? You think they would take over Mexico and it would be really bad or would you prefer that over some kind of digitized prison in the US? You have to pick your poison or what do you think about that? The cartels are just effectively capital.
So there's not going to be anything particularly bad about what they do. I think they only exist because there's a huge market up north, right? And they're controlled by the CIA. If these things disappear, the cartels will have to find another job, which probably involves working the land and doing something productive. Yeah, they've turned to things like avocados instead of drugs. You don't think it would turn into kind of organized mafia type of thing, just like crime? I mean, that will probably just happen everywhere if things get really bad. Yeah.
Okay, let's do the advertisement real fast. The newsletter is available by email now. It's $36 for 12 issues, which can be paid through [email protected]. You can also order Ray's books, "From PMS to Menopause," "Progesterone in Orthomolecular Medicine," "Gender of Energy," "Mind and Tissue," and "Nutrition for Women" by emailing that same address. And then also Progest-E from Keenogen. You can email Catherine to [email protected]. Each bottle of Progest-E is 3,400 milligrams of progesterone. And Ray, do you have any recent progesterone stories from people saying that it did this or that? No, nothing special I've heard.
I usually have one in the can, but I can't think of anything. Georgi, do you have one? Yes, I do. I have a person who lives in Europe who's been emailing me and basically they got diagnosed with what the doctors thought were benign tumors in the liver. And then they did a biopsy and turned out one of the nodules was actually malignant. And then this person really freaked out. I think he bought Ray's Progest-E or had it from before and basically took the equivalent of about a teaspoon daily, I think for two weeks.
And then they went back and then basically the malignant nodule had completely disappeared. And then of the four remaining nodules that were basically proven benign, three had also disappeared and the last one had shrunk to the size of a pinhead. And after another two weeks, that one was gone as well. Amazing. Hey Georgi, Ray, thank you so much for doing this. Ray, stay on the line and we'll close the show. We have an amazing listenership. Thank you guys so much. We only had Ray for an hour today, so we're not going to exceed that.
Thank you guys so much for bearing with us and have a great weekend. We'll talk to you guys soon. Okay, bye everyone. Okay, bye.